taylor: i am taylor riggs in for emily chang, and this is the "best of bloomberg technology." where we bring you all of our top interviews from this week in tech. coming up, cook facetime. president trump tours apple's austin, texas factory at a time when the white house considers whether to exempt apple goods from the tariffs. we will have the latest. plus, come clean. senator josh hawley says big tech is spinning tall tales. he wants facebook and google to stop using "lawyer speak" when it comes to tracking user data. and later, bill gates on how tech r&d is being seriously

hampered by u.s.-china trade tensions. his comments from the bloomberg new economy forum. but we begin this hour with apple. the company made news on two fronts this week. the first -- president trump's visit wednesday to apple's austin, texas factory. cook met the president to discuss keeping macs and iphones free from tariffs. the other news involved the way apple tests software. it is changing after a series of bugs marred the latest iphone and ipad operating system. bloomberg's mark gurman and d.a. davidson's tom forte kicked off the conversation thursday. mark: so, basically, apple's ios software has been bugging the past few years. this particular release cycle, with ios 13, macos catalina, it has been especially buggy.

what apple is doing is going to make it so that engineers, earlier in the process, can determine what is working in order to hopefully come up with a much more stable operating system when they ship each september. taylor: tom, i know that you cover the fundamentals of the business. in your opinion when you analyze the company, at what point do you have to start to take a look at these software glitches and incorporate them into your analysis? tom: well i think to the point it has a dampening impact on unit sales for the company. when you think about apple, they have had some snafus over time with their technology. and it is not unusual for them to have issues with their software. the challenge here, though, is that if you think about both new iphone users and then old iphone users who upgrade to the latest software, it is really part of that, you know, feel for the consumer of having the latest and greatest apple technology. so it is definitely something they need to improve.

but when it has an impact on unit sales, that is when i get real concerned about it. taylor: so mark, i am curious -- in your opinion, you have seen apple come out with these glitches and have to quickly issue new updates. is it better to do that, to get it out to the customer first, as tom was alluding to, or would you prefer to see the company sit back and roll it out right the first time? mark: they really don't have an option but to get it out at the proper time each year, right? they have to introduce it every june, and they have to release it every september. to tom's point, selling new devices is the most important thing. the way these new devices are developed is they are built concurrently with the software updates. so would be impossible to, let's say, ship the iphone 11 without ios 13. so they really have no choice. so it is not a matter if they should or if they should not. there is really no option here besides adding fewer features, which, of course, they are not going to do, because the features are what drives sales.

taylor: tom, i want to switch gears and talk about tim cook's visit with trump yesterday at apple's new factory in austin, texas. broadly, if you take a look at apple and tim cook's relationship with trump, is tim cook and apple doing the right thing by getting in front of the president, getting the president's ear, showing off new factories, even though it is small, in apple's terms? tom: the answer to that is absolutely yes. i would argue that no publicly traded ceo has done a better job managing the relationship with with a company and the president than tim cook has for apple. you see that in the recent tariffs to the extent that they adjusted to the timing of it, which essentially gave apple an opportunity to sell its new iphones one more time without the full impact of tariffs. so i think tim cook has done an amazing job. it is interesting to do a compare and contrast, if you want to, on how he has done versus jeff bezos and amazon. most recently, if you look at the jedi contract that loss, it suggests tim cook is doing a

much better job. apple is doing a great job managing its relationship with the president, and tim cook is leading that charge. taylor: mark, react to that. is tim cook doing the best of all the big tech ceo's? mark: i would agree that tim cook is doing what he needs to do from a bottom-line perspective, from a financials perspective. like tom said, he did get tariffs on the iphone delayed, and we will see if this dog and pony show plays into apple getting either a waiver or a further delay on smartphone products. at the end of the day, what they showed yesterday was not new in any way. they framed it as some sort of big launch. it is important to note, this factory, those engineers, everything you saw yesterday, everything you see in this green now, has been in place since 2013. so this is not new by any means. this is a seven-year-old existing infrastructure that has basically been portrayed as a new thing.

and they are going ahead and thanking the trump administration for this. on top of that, this is not the iphone, the ipad, the apple watch. this is apple's lowest volume product that they sell. so the impact this would have had on apple's bottom line, if this was a tariff product they produced in china, would have been so slim anyways. so it is unclear what apple is winning by doing this other than getting in this pr situation with the trump administration in order to prevent tariffs on other products, like iphones, moving forward, which, of course, is a smart business decision but a bad pr move in the interim. taylor: well, tom, within the pr machine that is apple, is the political savviness of tim cook an undervalued asset? is that not being reflected in the share price? tom: with the rebound in shares, it is hard to indicate what is not in the share price. so i do think the company, again, tim cook at the charge, has done an amazing job as the smartphone market has matured, in starting to diversify his revenue base. you think about what they are doing with all their other

hardware devices, including wearables, the watches. and what we look at in particular is either proprietary content or things they are doing in financial services, both apple pay and apple card, and also health care. so i do think it is reflected in shares, and it is warranted. i think they have done an amazing job managing the current administration, and it should be positively reflected in price. taylor: tom, what is your base case scenario when it comes to tariffs? tom: great question. i will give a quick example of sonos, which another company i covered. they indicated they are moving all of their production into malaysia and out of china. so i think the base case is you are going to see more companies that are going to move their manufacturing operations out of china. in the case of apple, apple may never be able to move its smartphone manufacturing out of

china, but it may be able to have more of its parts manufacturers move their own supply chains out of china, which could help it avoid some of the tariffs, in addition to tim cook's efforts to manage the administration there. taylor: mark, i want to switch gears a little bit as well. we saw some technical glitches when disney was trying to become a tech company and had to keep up with passport thieves and passport hackers. we have had apple tv+ have some glitches when it comes to the rollout of their films, one of which they had to pull back. is apple tv+ prepared to be a media company? mark: yes. i think apple's infrastructure for video streaming, the application development that it has had for a number of years has been there. so, i think apple -- their cloud infrastructure on the consumer side is not normally great, but i think there have really been no glitches. it has really been problem-free in terms of rollouts of new shows. i have seen this myself on my apple products, every time a new episode hits on midnight, friday eastern time, you get a buzz on

your phone, and a new episode is available. it is ready to stream immediately. i think there screens in the app store and distribution, itunes movie rentals, has really prepared them for this. password management has been a big focus for apple for the last few years. apple tv+ is tied directly into family sharing. so you can use tv+ on that subscription either free or for $5 a month with four other family members. from a technology perspective, tv+ has been problem-free. taylor: that was bloomberg's mark gurman and d.a. davidson's tom forte. coming up, senator josh hawley is making his mark by taking on tech. we hear from the senator on how he plans to make sure companies like facebook and google respect your privacy. that is next. and if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. you can listen on the bloomberg app, bloomberg.com, and in the u.s. on sirius xm. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: google is severely limiting how political advertisers can target people online, a decision made after weeks of debate over how online platforms handle campaign messages. the tech company said, on wednesday, it will stop allowing election ads to be targeted based on political affiliation on google search, youtube, and across the web. it is also banning misleading information on ads. however, ad targeting based on age, gender, and location is still allowed. senator josh hawley may be a junior senator from missouri, but he is making a name for himself by being one of the most outspoken critics on big tech. he has tried to ensure u.s. consumer data is not sent and stored in countries deemed a national security threat.

he spoke with the senator, josh hawley, wednesday, about taking on big tech, starting with the letter he sent to facebook demanding they explain their data tracking policies. sen. hawley: facebook has said to its users now that they can turn off location tracking, but as it turns out, you can't. even if you say you do not want to be tracked by facebook, facebook on your phone continues to scan all of the wi-fi in your area. it continues to use your cellular location, and it continues to transmit that information to facebook. so this is another misrepresentation, frankly, and i would like to know why is it that facebook is telling its users they can stop tracking when, in fact, they cannot stop tracking. google does the same thing, by the way. i think this is just one more instance of these big tech companies not being honest about the data they are collecting. taylor: so you think they are purposefully misleading users? sen. hawley: i do not know how to read it any other way. you read the post facebook put up for all of its users, saying you can stop facebook from learning your precise location.

a very a lawyerly phrase, as it turns out. i think the normal consumer would never imagine that, if they say they want to turn off their location services, that facebook is still tracking them. still tracking the wi-fi, still using the cellular data, the cellular network, to pinpoint their location. i think it is very misleading. taylor: what would you like to hear back in response from facebook? sen. hawley: i would like to hear the facts. i want to hear the explanations for the difference between where they have told consumers and users and what they are actually doing. there is a huge gap there, and i would like to hear them explain it in their own words. actually come clean, be honest, and set out the facts. this just gets to why we need to pass legislation, congress needs to pass legislation, to give every single american the right to opt out of being tracked, period. no back doors, no workaround, every american should say i don't want to be tracked. taylor: are you also planning on

writing a letter to apple and google, given it runs on the apple ios software and the google android system? sen. hawley: google is already well aware my concerns, as is apple. google has similar problems. google testified to me, under oath, that their users can turn off location services and not be tracked. that is also not true. the android phone constantly scans for wi-fi networks, constantly monitors your cellular network, even if the patient services are off, and it transmits that information to google. as i say, the tech companies are really doing the same thing. mr. present in their positions to consumers while collecting

information. they need to stop. taylor: to be fair, we have heard a lot about data privacy. we have seen a few existing privacy legislation come out. they have not gone anywhere. why does yours have a chance to go somewhere? sen. hawley: for one, it has bipartisan support. take the "do not track" bill, which is a significant move for consumers, which gives every american the right to say i do not want to be tracked. i do not my location to be tracked. i do not want google or facebook or twitter or anyone to scoop up information about me. it would give every american the right to that. it is sponsored by senator feinstein from california and senator warner from virginia. so we have got bipartisan support. it is a common sense measure and something consumers deserve to have. taylor: i wants to fold in your concerns about data privacy to big tech and antitrust. the doj has sort of hinted those two things are the same issue. is this a concern about data privacy? or do you have antitrust concerns? sen. hawley: one of the reasons data privacy concerns are so pressing is because these companies are monopoly-sized. if we had a viable alternative to facebook that was not skipping up our data, was not selling our information without

telling us, i would be less concerned. but the truth is there are not really viable competitors to facebook or google, and so that's a big problem. so i am concerned about their anti-competitive conduct. i'm concerned it is making the data privacy issues worse. taylor: i think critics, to be fair, would say the big competitors are in china. china tech is massive. if we break up u.s. tech, how do we take on china? sen. hawley: i don't understand why promoting more competition and getting more innovation in the market would hurt our standing vis-a -vis chinese competitors. but listen, i have introduced legislation that would stop chinese companies from entering this market if they are going to abuse our data collection. i have a bill, for instance, that would stop companies like tiktok, a chinese owned company, from collecting all of this data and sharing it with the beijing government, because that is also a major privacy concern. so we can address the threat from china and the background threat they are, which is beijing, getting our information while also asking american companies to actually compete, innovate, and be honest with consumers. taylor: senator, i'm going to

take the bait -- let's talk about tiktok and apple. i want to know more about your solution. because we cannot keep apple out of china, and we cannot really keep tiktok out of the u.s. how do we solve the problem? sen. hawley: with tiktok, it is a simple solution. that is to prohibit tiktok, which is a chinese owned company -- they do not advertise that to consumers -- from transferring any data of americans to china. we should make that illegal. there should be a firewall. and in the future, anytime a chinese company wants to acquire an american data company, the state department should sign off beforehand. there should be preclearance requirements. when it comes to apple or any company like apple, they should not be storing data in china and encryption keys in china. it is too much of a security

risk. taylor: so tiktok should be under review? sen. hawley: tiktok is already under their review, but should have been done on the front end. my bill would change that. it would require it to be signed up before a company -- or a russian company, for that matter -- when it comes to security, none of those companies in those countries should be able to buy an american company without preclearance. taylor: what does a realistic tech bill look like? that has a chance of getting past? sen. hawley: i think we could start with "do not track." i think it is a huge protection for consumers. it has broad bipartisan support. it addresses data privacy issues. and it is pro-competition. it goes to the very business model of google and facebook and twitter, for that matter. i would start there. and i have said over and over that i do not think the goal of comprehensive privacy legislation, whatever that may look like, we should not let that stand in the way of actually taking steps right now

that will be good for consumers. so i would start with "do not track" and protections for children. big tech should not be able to direct ads to kids, should not be able to track kids, and every parent should have the right to have that data deleted. taylor: and on this, europe and the european union has been much more strict than the u.s. why have they been able to pass legislation and we haven't? sen. hawley: because i think big tech has purchased a lot of friends here in the capital. they have expanded their network of influence for years now. they deployed it strategically. give facebook and google credit they know how to play this game. but the truth is consumers are impatient. parents are impatient. they are fed up with their kids being exploited online, being tracked online. consumers are fed up with being tracked and not having anything to say about it, having no way to opt out of it. i think the american people will demand action by congress, and that is why this body needs to act.

taylor: senator, i want to address another bill you have been talking about, which is ending support for internet censorship, which is intended to address claims of anti-conservative bias within big tech. the heritage foundation said that if that bill was enacted, it regulates online content but it does risk eroding a lot of the free speech. how do you respond to the heritage foundation? sen. hawley: i would say that, first of all, this is a pro free speech measure. we need more free speech, not less. we need less relation, less monitoring of content based on political viewpoint. my concern is because facebook and google are monopoly-sized companies, when they decide they are going to discriminate on the basis of political views, against conservatives, against pro-life voices, against pro-religious freedom voices, that means those folks are effectively shut out of the digital marketplace. that should not be the case. all of these companies say that they don't make decisions on the basis of political viewpoints. my legislation just holds them to that.

they should submit to an audit every year to make sure that is accurate. if it's not accurate, they should not be able to keep special protections under section 230. taylor: that was senator josh hawley of missouri. still ahead, santander's chairman says legislation should be a level playing field across sectors, not just banks and big tech. later, microsoft co-founder bill gates joins us from the bloomberg new economy forum in beijing. hear his thoughts on artificial intelligence. a♪

taylor: the chairman of europe's largest bank, santander, ana botin, has said that, in the past, there is a discrepancy between regulatory restrictions. she sat down with erik schatzker tuesday for an exclusive interview to discuss her views on regulating and partnering with tech companies. ana: what is a bank?

what is a bank? does a bank just take deposits and make loans? of course. but we do payments. we have always -- my strategy since i have arrived is to be a responsible bank and grow loyal customers. loyal customers -- if i asked you, erik, you will have one bank in your head, even though you might have five accounts. is that true? erik: that's true. ana: so you are like 99% of americans and most people around the planet. for that to be the case, i need to know you, and that is based on data. my question to you is, why should data be regulated -- now i am talking about europe -- in a different way if you're called a bank or something else? you, as a customer, should be able to share my data but vice versa, also from other players.

so i can give you a loan at 6% instead of 7%. that is all i am saying. we need a fair playing field. distinctions between sectors -- this is not just about banks and payment companies. it is about transport companies. hotel companies. this is the issue we need to sort out. erik: some of the big u.s. banks, jpmorgan, goldman sachs, citigroup, have started forming partnerships with tech companies to provide financial services. will santander do that too? ana: we have been doing that. we are 100% in favor of innovation. we have partnered with many american companies like ripple. we want to take these companies and services -- when we do not approve a a loan, we pass it on to these companies. this is exactly the point. we need everybody else to be open. so my question to you -- what is

a critical infrastructure in the digital age? we used to say telcos were critical infrastructures. isn't a device a critical infrastructure? erik: you could make that argument. ana: a digital wallet. do you know how many people have a digital wallet in the world today? more than 2 billion. if you have a digital wallet, who should be part of that arrangement? should it be the phone provider or whoever is issuing the cards? these other things we need to make sure we have clarity on. taylor: that was the santander chairman ana botin. and coming up, microsoft co-founder bill gates on chilly u.s.-china ties and what that means for cross-border collaboration, especially when it comes to artificial intelligence. his comments from the bloomberg new economy forum. that is next. and "bloomberg technology" is livestreaming on twitter. check us out, @technology, and be sure to check out our global breaking news network at @tictoc

on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪

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♪ taylor: back to "best of bloomberg technology." r&d is the focus of the conversation with delegates. -- with bill gates this week. he spoke to john mickelthwait from the bloomberg new economy forum in beijing. the discuss changing energy uses two and carbon tax. bill: there is no doubt that solar and wind will be a huge part of that. because those are intermittent forces, the need for 24/7 like nuclear or unbelievable miracle

-- and it is very high. you can look at a country like japan, tokyo. you have seven days with no wind or sun power at all so you say if you will not have people freeze to death, what is the source of energy during that seven-day period? the u.s. midwest, you have long periods where the cold front sits on it and the wind does not blow. it will either be a storage miracle or a bit of nuclear. the electric source will be almost three times as big because it will be taking over parts of transport and industrial and heating that historically went to hydrocarbon usage. people building models of that future grid, different universities, different people picking their choices, that will be the sign that not only do we

have a goal to be there by 2050, but we are debating the paths and concrete plans. when you see things like a 15% diesel tax, the willingness, you can question whether it is there because the pre-writer problem has never been worse than it is in climate, especially for middle income countries that argue that the historical missions for the rich countries mean they have to wait per person. john: a carbon tax is the way to secure that? you pointed to the political difficulties of that, but that is the fairest way to do it? bill: that is a way to do it. if you look at the u.s. in particular, i don't think it is likely to happen. we have tax credits on renewables, renewable portfolio standards. you can get there in a way that

is less neutral. there is a variety of regulations to help nascent sectors. in the industrial sector, people have gotten excited about the low hanging fruit. the electric part is the easy part. you still have to do the grid. various things including industrial are very difficult. nuclear, you get a million times the energy per reaction than by burning carbon, so it is advantaged if you do the design right, cannot say it would succeed but it would be good in this innovation portfolio. we have to have a lot of bets knowing some of them won't succeed. john: you think you have come up with a new design which would run more efficient. bill: in the computer, our design is amazing and that is perfect because you can simulate

earthquakes, volcanoes, planes crashing into it, none of the things with the nuclear plant, you could do any of that. the safety is strong. we need to build a demo plant and we plan to do that in china. the u.s. government decided we shouldn't do that, so now the backup plan as we will try and build that in the united states. it is not an easy endeavor, but none of the paths to climate success are risk-free. john: how frustrating was that for you? you put all this money into setting up this technology with the chinese on board to test it, and the trump administration stopped it. bill: i had gone for a decade, meeting with every secretary of energy who urged the u.s. government to create an agreement because you need

explicit permission to do this kind of collaboration. it was a surprise when that was withdrawn and meant that a lot of things we had done, it was a setback and in the best case it was a five-year delay. in the worst case, it would completely collapse. john: the big theme is china and america. if we are in the foothills of a cold war, you are passionate about engagement with china, how do you view the situation? bill: even more passionate about the value of engagement than ever. the last few years have seen voices arguing against that, even for so-called decoupling. it is a benefit that there is interdependence. the fact that we have tourists from japan, china, students from

china, companies that do research in china. apple is the tech company, the only tech company that sells products in china. that interdependence can lead to more dialogue come up more mutual understanding, so to have people arguing against that is a serious concern. taylor: that was bill gates, microsoft cofounder, from beijing. the new economy forum was organized by bloomberg media group, a division of bloomberg lp. the new economy forum gave us the opportunity to hear from leaders in the tech sector on topics of the day, like the u.s.-china trade issue. sanjay mehrotra caught us up on what challenges the chipmaker faces. sanjay: i am here in beijing and this is a developing story.

i don't have anything specific to share. enda: have you had conversations with wilbur ross? how do you describe the conversations you are having with u.s. officials? sanjay: we are a very large global company and always engaging in conversation with governments around the world. the u.s. administration on an ongoing basis over the year, and certainly in recent times as well because our business in china is certainly important. enda: would you say the conversations are constructive? sanjay: absolutely. >> reading more about what is going on in china, the state has put in about $29 billion to getting this country self-sufficient. is that a bigger threat than the interim trade war,

self-sufficiency for technology supremacy as number one on the agenda? sanjay: the memory -- that micron made, these are extremely important. when you look at the -- in this backdrop, the products we bring to the customer in china, we are a valued partner. micron has a history of 40 years, tremendous amount of innovation from the country does company. we are used to competition around the globe. we will keep bringing new technologies and products for the benefit of customers around the globe, including china. enda: there are challenges therein from april and from the point of view of the trade war. moving it -- have you done that or do you anticipate doing that

next year? sanjay: we have manufacturing of our leading-edge products around the globe. in the u.s., we have manufacturing. we have not taken any out of the u.s. our fabrication area is in manassas, virginia, the center of excellence for automotive products were micron has a number one global market share. our supply chain is very adaptive and agile. in these recent times where there certainly have been some challenges on the global trade front, we have shown in terms of addressing the challenges and moving on, continuing to bring value to our customers around

the globe. taylor: that was micron ceo sanjay mehrotra from beijing. the new economy forum was organized by bloomberg economy group, a division of bloomberg lp. qualcomm has been front and center in the development of 5g networks, including its strong partnership with apple and china telecom firms. discussing views on apple and how china is doing in the 5g race. steve: we have a very strong business in china, a lot of partners including huawei we sell to. it continues to be a big opportunity and business for us, and in some ways, actually isolated or insulated from the trade discussions.

happening worldwide with 5g in china. qualcomm is a big part of that and it is a classic story that if you have technology that people want or need, or if you are the strongest partner, you can figure out how to win. caroline: you don't feel the business has been curtailed? steve: we have had a change in the structure of the chinese market as the huawei handset business has retrenched into china. what people have done and reaction is said, i will accelerate my 5g plans and not spend so much time on 4g. what has happened, this has accelerated the intensity of the 5g rollout, and not just at the high end. it has come several tiers below the premium tier. caroline: is china ahead of the u.s.? steve: not from the technology perspective, and the behind

scenes look is we are all working together. if china and the u.s. to not work together, you miss an opportunity worldwide, and you are not seeing that. people are cooperating. if you look at the deployment at which base stations are rolling out, china is going quite fast. there will be 130,000 base stations next year and one million in china next year alone. those are huge numbers in comparison to the united states. that does not mean the united states is not going quickly as well. you are seeing china and the united states launching in the same calendar year. they used to be separated by two or five years but now everyone is trying to get to 5g quickly. taylor: that was the qualcomm ceo.

will waymo's driverless fleet give drivers more time at rest stops? we will ask their chief product officer. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: more on the race to advance 5g networks. there are many ways to make 5g accessible but the government and fcc are trying to figure out the best way to make that happen. she spoke to david westin. jessica: as we move to 5g, we will need new airwaves to power that, and some of those airwaves are mid band airways. that c band you are talking about is right there. the fcc allocated that two satellite services and they could return some now and make them available for wireless, and that is at issue, what is the best way to make that happen? for a while, the fcc was exploring a private sale, but increasingly it has started to look legally complicated, hard

to do, and capitol hill has suggested that we do this through a public auction. the fcc chairman announced he would prefer a public auction, and we will work with folks on capitol hill to see if we can do that. david: one other dispute that came up, the six gigahertz dispute which appears to be wi-fi, companies like broadcom, versus utilities who need that spectrum for emergency communications. jessica: airwaves are getting complicated and when you have an existing use and you propose new uses, there tends to be some friction.

unlicensed spectrum or wi-fi is an important part of this economy so we are looking for places to grow wi-fi, and the six gigahertz band is one that we would like to do it because it is adjacent to online spectrum use for wi-fi. there are utilities that rely on that band so we will have to figure out how to do more unlicensed wi-fi along with protect utility activities from interference. the fcc started a proceeding but it is a heated one. we are looking at other places for wi-fi to go, including the 5.9 gigawatt band. david: give us an extent to which partisan politics enters into this. president trump has said it is a priority for the country to go

to 5g. how much is it republicans and democrats and how much is it republicans and democrats united on the goal? jessica: we are united on the goal. we want the united states to lead the next generation of technology, but when it comes to tactics, we might differ. i am the senior democrat at the industry and the administration does not have a plan for 5g service. there is no leadership from the senate. the national security advisor, we need a map when it comes to 5g. you have the fcc fighting with congress and the department of transportation over airwaves,

and the president tweeting out that he has asked for assistance with 5g. other economies around the world are making strides and we do not want to fall behind. taylor: coming up, the sixth season of the formula e kicks off. more on lucid, that is batteries, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: still waiting for driverless vehicles to still hit the road, but the ceo of waymo thinks one part of the market get rolling first. he told reporters that before we see things like true robo taxis, it is more likely to see driverless trucks like those waymo has been testing out in california and the southwestern united states. the chief products officer dan chu joined us from half moon bay

in california. dan: i think we are excited about the long haul opportunity. it is really a foundation for the economy. we have been working on this since 2017 and we have already done a pilot with google, shipping some of their data center parts in atlanta. taylor: how has the general rollout been going in cities like phoenix when you are looking at robo taxis and true driverless vehicles? dan: the rollout has been going really well. i am excited about the progress. we started in 2017 launching an early rider program. nowadays we have thousands of riders taking rides and we have been pulling out truly driverless rides so riders in phoenix can hail a ride and have a ride show up without a driver. taylor: when would we see a bigger rollout nationwide as

opposed to select cities? dan: we definitely have global ambitions, and our mission is to make every single mile safer. we think the rollout will be city by city, incremental, so we will continue to expand in metro phoenix and go on from there. we have already driven in 25 cities and testing in new ones. we have started testing in miami and los angeles. taylor: have you ridden in one? what is it like? dan: i definitely have. an important part of our culture at waymo as far as to try our own products. it is an incredible experience. we think it brings a bit of independence, privacy, time to yourself. i believe it is a whole new product.

taylor: that was way chief product officer dan chu. formula e is happening in saudi arabia, where the slickest all electric vehicles battle outside every aunt, all powered by lucid. ed ludlow has the details. ed: zero to 60 in 2.8 seconds, and all from an electric motor, this is formula e. the all electric cousin of formula one. when street racing started in 2014, cars could not complete the race on a single charge, but since last season that has changed. thanks to this battery pack, built by a california company called lucid. >> we use our proprietary

expertise, particularly modeling and thermal control, and structural analyses and packaging. we are manufacturing here in this very building at our headquarters in silicon valley. ed: season five was the first time lucid provide battery packs for formula e, but their involvement was kept controversial and they were labeled as a battery partner. this year, lucid is taking the spotlight and will continue to do so until their contract expires after season eight in 2021, so what can formula e fans expect? we got a look under the hood of lucid's latest battery designs. the shape and software will help the team go the distance.

for lucid, the formula e deal is a small part of a bigger plan. >> generate a modest revenue, really a token. we are doing this to demonstrate world-class technology that will find a way into our road car. ed: it is designed to compete against tesla and porsche. engineers are building prototypes in small batches at the new factory. the focus has been on making the battery packs is lightweight and efficient as possible, using proprietary robotics. lucid e battery pack has 20% more density than the nearest consumer ev.

>> they are incredibly light and increased the energy density beyond what is commercially available at the moment, so lucid can transfer its technology to commercial vehicles and give them an advantage. ed: lucid says there is potential to sell the battery pack to other automakers or form partnerships. they hope formula e will perform in pole position to capture the market in 2020. ed ludlow, half moon bay, california. taylor: that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." we will bring you the latest in tech throughout the week. tune in at 5:00 p.m. new york, 2:00 p.m. san francisco. bloomberg technology is livestreaming on twitter. follow our global breaking news

network, @tictoc on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪

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